Streetcar Workshop Afternoon Panels

By Eric Richardson
Published: Thursday, May 22, 2008, at 03:39PM

Jolene Hayes Eric Richardson [Flickr]

Jolene Hayes of the City of Irvine talks about plans for a streetcar line connecting the Irvine Metrolink station and the Great Park.

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — After a hearty lunch, the Los Angeles Streetcar Workshop kicked things back into gear this afternoon. Two panels were slated for the afternoon.

Streetcar 202 looked at the nuts and bolts of options for running streetcar lines. Local Case Studies showed that Downtown isn't the only place in Southern California looking at streetcar operation.

Streetcar 202

John Schumann, Jim Graebner and T. R. Hickey gave a bit of history and then got into the nuts and bolts of system design options from where you place the track to what kind of overhead wires you run.

Particularly interesting was a slide, shown below, that helps illustrate the different role of different transportation modes. People often ask questions like, "If streetcar's cheaper, why build light rail?" The two serve different functions, as do heavy rail and commuter rail.

Local Case Studies

Toni Bates, Parsons

Project looking to connect Garden Grove to Santa Ana Metrolink station. OCTA was the initial driver, looking to extend Metrolink reach. Secondary goal of changing land uses and spurring redevelopment.

Buses on existing route serve very low ridership -- haven't been any sort of a catalyst. Light rail was considered by OCTA, but plans were dropped. The cities wanted something in the middle -- permanent but cheaper.

Studies have been done and that work is moving forward.

Q: Two projects, or one project?

Keep them together and maximize value. Even if there are phases, present it as one project.

Q: How to fund?

Funding was discussed throughout the day. No simple answers, but lots of need for creativity.

Fred Dock, City of Pasadena

Very early stage of planning to connect neighborhoods in the Central area. Activity areas are on Colorado and Lake, but the two streets aren't well suited for streetcar use and are also entirely built out (little development potential). Considering options around the two streets, either straddling them or just running on one side.

Q: How do you make a streetcar compatible with the Rose Parade?

If you have crossings you'd just need to take down that section for the parade. The overhead wires are what killed the idea of trolley buses (electric buses) in Pasadena in the past.

Jolene Hayes, City of Irvine

Transportation planning in connection with the Great Park. Metrolink - Irvine Spectrum - Great Park. Just started EIR process. Completed Alternatives Analysis. Existing activity centers to be connected.

Expect to have service by 2012.

Bob Henry, Port of Los Angeles

Gave a background of the Red Car line in San Pedro and the plans for future expansion. The system uses cars made to look like the old Pacific Electric models. First line was very small, but expansion plans are agressive.

Q: Down in a peninsula, how do you connect to the larger system?

Streetcars are for pedestrians, and pedestrians are carless, so connections are key.


Comparing Transportation Types Eric Richardson

This slide from the Streetcar 202 presentation shows that different types of transit serve different purposes.

Jim Graebner Eric Richardson

Jim Graebner talks about streetcar history.

This story belongs to the following topics:

Topic:
Downtown Streetcar

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Topic:
Los Angeles Streetcar Workshop

5 stories



Comments

1
Stephen writes:

Eric, Good to see you at the Streetcar Conference. Thanks for working to make it happen!

# on May.22.2008 AT 08:10 PM
2
mark writes:

Good to see you. thanks for the invite Eric, great coverage! -citizenmain

# on May.23.2008 AT 08:18 AM
3
Darrell Clarke writes:

Thanks for the extensive coverage, Eric! I posted a few images to complement it.

# on May.23.2008 AT 08:47 PM
4
Skeptic writes:

For the real story on the streetcar DEBACLE in Portland, folks wishing to see beyond the hype should visit "Debunking Portland: The Public Transit" at http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8643.

Also worth a visit is "Did the Portland Streetcar Generate $2.3 Billion in Development" at http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=57.

# on May.24.2008 AT 10:01 AM
5
Don Noyes-More writes:

Another good review of streetcar/lightrail history is that of the BART system in San Francisco and its tie-in to the SF City light rail system. Especially their first computer monitered tracking system produced by RCA Computers. Its a very interesting story of all the good and bad (4 years of Market street torn up and lost business.

Don Noyes-More, Editor in Chief, DTLAL Magazine

# on May.24.2008 AT 10:21 AM
6
Purple Haze writes:

Beware of skeptics promoting the Cato Institute.

After all, it was Cato On The Brain that helped give us the U.S. involvement in Iraq.

          • -    -[this messaged has been intercepted by the Office of Homeland Security]

Ultimately, all civic subsidies ought best go to Haliburton and all of Dick Cheney's buddies, NOT public transit. You understand that? Cato People know what's best for America.

And remember, if you see anyone reading ATLAS SHRUGGED on the Redline, tell them they're a hypocrite for riding public transit. Everyone knows that an individual had ought to be driving an automobile instead. A shiny new Beamer, specifically.

_ _ _ Security Over-ride_ _ _

And when you vote this coming November, remember which candidate would promote the better, more progressive transit agenda across America. And don't forget which candidate has the most lobbysists employed at his senate office and on his campaign staff as well, and has been cited for frequently associating with a platinum blonde lobbyist behind the back of his platinum blonde wife.

# on May.24.2008 AT 02:53 PM
7
Metro Local writes:

Purple Haze:

Try what President Cinton said he did -- put it to your lips but don't inhale!

# on May.24.2008 AT 03:16 PM
8
Scott Mercer writes:

Beware of links to articles at the Cato Institute by noted anti-transit zealot Randall O'Toole. I'm not saying don't read his article; just realize what perspective he is coming from. You might call public transit promoters biased; if that's true then this gentlemen (cough cough) is certainly biased in the other direction.

# on May.24.2008 AT 09:55 PM
9
David Kennedy writes:

I would agree with Scott. There are some people for whom public transit is a total anthema. For them, it can never be justified. Public transit is just one tool in the public policy mix. I find myself reflexively skeptical when someone says a certain public policy option is completely off the table.

# on May.24.2008 AT 10:39 PM
10
sebas writes:

I think the city should also focus on light rail or subways in other cities not alway going to and from downtown, not everyone works there. I live in glendale, and work in pasadena, and it would take me 1 hour each way to get to work if I took the bus.

# on May.27.2008 AT 12:14 PM

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