Broadway Effort Would Do Well to Look at Denver Mall

I really like 16th Street Mall as well. I especially like the trees that are planted in the medians that line the entire pedestrian thoroughfare. I think making Broadway a pedestrian-only promenade with a street car line that runs up and down would be wonderful. Plant lotsa trees and clean it up. It would become an instant success and become a tremendous catalyst to further attract more businesses into the Historic Core.

It’s been a while since I have been to the Denver Mall, the mid-90s to be honest.

The one thing I always remember is how diligent the police were. A homeless man started to harass some people and boom the police came in and took him away. A kid and his friends started to skateboard and the cops zoomed in on the group and made them pick up their boards and walk away.

I always thought this was one of the most important ‘things’ in cleaning up and area and bringing people into the area.

I have a feeling a lot of LA advocacy groups would not put up with such tactics.

Just got back from Denver also. Thought it would be a great place to visit, as we loved Portland, Oregon. Yet we all hated Denver. Don’t emulate the 16th Street mall here. We don’t need a Starbucks on every other block, punctuated by a Cheesecake Factory, Barnes & Noble and a Hard Rock cafe. This was the anti-downtown. Nothing organic. Completely manufactured.

And that free mall bus. Good idea in theory, bad idea in practice. Because it was free, all the pedestrians stayed on 16th Street. Despite the fact that downtown ran from 14th all the way to 19th, the other streets were completely dominated by cars, with very few pedestrians. You would see a sidewalk cafe on 16th street overflowing with people. Yet you could look down the adjacent sidestreet towards 17th Street and see a sidewalk cafe with almost no one there. This was an unfortunate byproduct of offering free transit on only one street. The pedestrians all felt coraled to 16th. Either do like Portland, and make ALL the transit free in downtown. Or make none of it free.

Staples Center is already going to be downtown’s answer to Citywalk. I hope Broadway doesn’t turn into the same.

Honestly..I prefer to keep Broadway open to buses and taxis. Close it to private auto - , but avoid making it a 3rd street promenade, Grove, Citywalk, or Americana at Brand.

Or keep Broadway open as is, and mdoel it Venice’s Abbot Kinney, or Hollywood’s Hollywood Blvd,…you know, like a real CITY street and not a model suburban-urban faux street i.e. Grove, Citywalk, 3rd street, Americana, etc...

The transit riders who use the buses and trains downtown rely on this extensive network. We can’t just simply stop running them on Broadway without either moving them elsewhere or terminating some lines. If they were moved, other streets would suffer the same noise and congestion problems.

What works about Broadway for me is the fact that it is largely a transit based street, and that its clientele use the system. We need to build on that, not kill it.

Watch out for the Bus Rider’s Union.

I feel that changing Broadway to a transit mall may have possibilities. A streetscape solution on this particular avenue should be very stately rather than informal in layout. The type (shape) of trees should go with that. Narrowing the roadway would allow space to plant trees out beyond the basement walls. Need we have the L.A. City std. plan curb and gutter?

I wonder if individuals, families or corporations across the metro area would be eager to subscribe for planting a specimen sized tree or installation of a water element on a beauteously beatified Broadway.

There are great photos of the avenue all decorated up for Shriners’ conventions back in the 1920s - with palm fronds attached to the streetlights and artificial palm trees suspended over the middle of the intersections. The use of Canary Island and Indio Date palms would be spectacular. The place would become a tourist attraction!

Back when the lane was known as Fort Street, city officials decided to make it the premiere avenue of the city. They adjusted the right of way originally set by Edward Ord, widened it from 80 to 100 feet. All other north-south Downtown streets have remained at 80 feet in width.

Whoever it was who decided to install those stamped brick red crosswalks all over Downtown should be shipped off to Tijuana. There is no substitute for well engineered and designed concrete. The use of interlocking concrete pavers for crosswalks in Westwood Village has been a disaster.

Did a relative of Eli Broad have something to do with the street’s renaming?

It is my belief that a downtown, anywhere, needs to be balanced with independents AND chains. I’m sure many of you here have been to New York and London, both cities with a lot of chains mixed in with independents. Until Los Angeles develops an extensive network of subway lines, we can’t consider the entire region as ONE COHERENT urban area like Manhattan or Central London. What is in Santa Monica is not relevant to Downtown LA. If I live in DTLA and I do not own a car, I may want to shop at chain stores and have convenient access to them. I may not want to take the Big Blue bus all the way over there. I may want to just step right outside my door. It is a fact that DTLA is big enough for both chains and independents. If you go to Manhattan, they do a great job mixing in chains RIGHT ALONG SIDE independents. For example, you will see a Banana Republic right next to a dry cleaner and a pizza joint! You’ll see an American Apparel right next to a bike shop. Of course you also have Soho and Fifth/Madison Avenues where there are many chains clustered around each other. Nevertheless, I honestly don’t think Broadway could become all chains. It’s too long to be able to become that. The Historic Core (Main, Spring, Broadway, Hill and the numbered streets) will become a retail dense district filled with everything - Chains and Independents.

That’s funny Eric, about the duplicate service. I think there is none, personally. I take the 728 down to Century City, and there’s only one bus line going down Olympic (28/728), What about Pico? One bus line. Venice Blvd? (the 33/333). One bus line. Our metro bus lines in LA mostly terminate/begin in downtown LA, and a lot of them go through broadway, hill, spring, & main. It’s not duplicate service that’s happening, all these riders are coming from a different area in LA. You cut one line, you got out a whole major artery where people are coming from.

With all those bus lines coming in/out of downtown via Broadway, we need Broadway to still be open to buses. A bus only lane or transit mall is a good idea that needs to be explored. We should not end all traffic on Broadway. Plus, a good public transportation system works with a good taxi system. Allow taxis to still use Broadway, but ixnai on the private auto.

I personally think there is not much bus service in Los Angeles. In European cities, usually, I notice 3 or 4 bus lines going down major corridors, outside of downtown streets, there’s usually only 1 line. This is attributable to our hub-and-spoke system.

Interesting! I was in Denver about a month ago, and I had the same thought - if only we could also transplant the river and parks as well as the Tattered Cover…

I think the busses - as they exist now - would make anything like the 16th Street crowds meandering, or sidewalk cafes a fantasy. There are too many passing through, they are way too noisy and driven way too aggressively. Most of the riders only pass through downtown. A transit mall may well be a good idea to serve the greater LA area, but collocating it with an important historic thoroughfare with hopes of becoming a pedestrian street is ridiculous. My favorite option would be the street trolley and taxis on a limited right of way, and a blanket expansion of the sidewalks. I also love Eric’s idea of making it cycle, roller blade and skateboard friendly. Truck access could be limited to 5AM to 9AM as well.

Simple solution convert Broadway to a transit only street. Widen the sidewalks and add trees and bushes to help muffle and deaden the sound of the CNG buses. Plus bikes can use it, folks can dine al-fresco because there’s more room in which to do it. Have live music play from strategically placed speakers along the corridor so that also adds life and deadens other loud noises. With this Transit Corridor concept what will be needed are additional bus only lanes on Hill Street Northbound and Spring Street southbound.

I really love how empassioned people are about all kinds of ideas to bring the Historic Core back to greatness. However, jumping on the bandwagon of simply turning Broadway into a transit only mall is hasty. I ask people to recall that for every success story (like Portland’s Fifth and Sixth Avenue transit malls) there are scores more that failed and were returned to streets that integrated public transit and personal automobiles, amid a highly enhanced pedestrian environment.

Here in Philadelphia, the Chestnut Street Transitway was rolled out for the Bicentennial in 1976. Chestnut, then and now, is a busy street of stores and offices. Over the years, deferred maintenance and changing tastes made the mall appear dated and forlorn. Further, retail tenants left or declined in quality as activity decreased. Wider sidewalks, while easy to make appealing, can actually reduce the vital feel of a major artery as crowds spread out. Broadway hardly has narrow sidewalks as it is now.
One will find that most transit malls and nearly all pedestrian only malls have been removed and returned to integrated modes of transportation being allowed through. Los Angeles only stands to find more vitality along Broadway with a streetcar, buses, and pedestrians, not to mention automobiles together on Broadway. I agree that the buses are very loud, but overall when infrastructure is updated and made beautiful, and the retail and commercial scene improves, people are often willing to co-exist with transit, cars, trucks etc.
Again, in improving Broadway, all angles should be discussed and examined, but I really think that in the long-run, eliminating any kind of movement from Broadway will not be a wise way to kick off an era of revival. I know things were crowded, but isn’t anyone energized by seeing old footage of Broadway in the 50’s, or photos of it, when it was mobbed? I would love to experience that sort of thing in the 21st Century in Los Angeles.

One last thing: Broadway beats the pants off 16th Street in Denver, even today: architecturally, culturally, historically, etc. In the future, 16th Street will want to emulate Broadway. Make book on it.

Ryan, you’re so right. But given Broadway’s extra-wide right of way, we can eliminate the curb lanes to allow a lil bit wider sidewalk and two wide travel lanes in each direction. There ought to be no left turns allowed at intersections, to speed the rate of flow, if autos are allowed. Think palm trees!